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Rethinking Cuba

Posted By: SP Daily

Rethinking Cuba - 05/28/07 10:35 PM

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-1701--6-6--.html
Posted By: Otteralum

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 02:20 AM

Jesse, Cuba's infant mortality rate and life expectancy are recorded and reported by the state-run media.

At the current rate of Chavez's nationalization of media, I bet Venezuela will pass Cuba for the lowest infant mortality in 18-24 months.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/05/28/venezuela.protest/index.html

Of course, even if true (a HUGE concession), it's not uncommon for a communist state to have one sparkling jewel so it can show the world how magnificent it is -- even if the rest of the country rots. Unlike The USSR and North Korea, Cuba hasn't really had to fear a military invasion since the Bay of Pigs and so it isn't suprising that it has sinked its national treasure into healthcare.

Don't get me wrong, I think the U.S. policy toward Cuba sucks. The people suffer, not the rulers. And, Cuba's medical system and disaster preparedness are very impressive. However, don't be fooled into thinking Castro has done his people any favors in the big picture.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 08:17 PM

On the eve of what soon will be fifty years of a bitter standoff between two nations, it is time to accept that Washington’s Cuba strategy is not only outdated but dysfunctional as well. There may be systematic shortcomings of socialist Cuba, but demonstrably, a lunar view of the Earth would discern some blemishes in the capitalist system as well.
Posted By: Otteralum

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 09:03 PM

true sir, but I'm talking less of capitalism and more of liberty. You can't be jailed in the U.S. for speaking out against government policy -- in Cuba, you disappear.

Economic systems aside, this is reason alone to take sides.
Posted By: SP Daily

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 09:19 PM

You're changing the subject of this thread.
Posted By: bywarren

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 09:57 PM

And what does this thread have to do with Belize?
Posted By: KC Jayhawk

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 10:01 PM

Not much, which is why it is appropriately in the Chat Area.
Posted By: travelqueen

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 10:02 PM

KC, thank you! Duh!
Posted By: Bobber

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 10:14 PM

Just a stupid little question. We sell them agricultural products. They pay us cash on the barrelhead. OK, now what could we import from them? What do they have that we need? I would agree that tourism we could provide would be about the only thing to deal with, as their cash flow is probably somewhat limited. Someday, it will happen, but not while Fidel is upright. Just my opinion of course.
Posted By: Sir Isaac Newton

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 10:18 PM

Flor de Cana rum, marijuana, sugar, citrus, coffee, cigars, cuban cakes and more importantly smoking hot women.

Posted By: Bobber

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/29/07 10:25 PM

I thought Flor de Cana came from Nicaragua. Are we hurting for any of the other things? Hell, we can get Cuban cigars anywhere out of country, and they even come in little metal supposatories (I know I spelled it wrong, I don't use it much), so you can bring them home. Tell me more about the smoking hot women?

Face it, Fidel did some major bridge burning.
Posted By: ChrisW

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 02:14 PM

"true sir, but I'm talking less of capitalism and more of liberty. You can't be jailed in the U.S. for speaking out against government policy -- in Cuba, you disappear.

Economic systems aside, this is reason alone to take sides."

Pure propaganda...the facts are (circa 2005 it has probably gotten worse since then):

Incarcerations per 100,000

US 737 (number 1)
Russia 611 (number 2)
Belize 487 (tied for 6th)
Cuba 487 (tied for 6th)
Canada 107
Japan 62

When it comes to taking away freedom by locking people up, Cuba is bad (I agree 100%), but the US arguably worse by some metrics.

Also:
1 in 3 chance of being locked up in your life time in the US if you are a black male.
1 in 6 if you are hispanic male.
1 in 17 if you are a white male.

Given the above disparity and that we are number one in the world for locking people up and that a lot of people are being locked up for victimless crimes (ex. pot), a very good case can be made that the US does lock people up for political crimes (ex. pot combined with being the wrong color)...just not for speaking out against the government.
Posted By: Bobber

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 02:28 PM

WHAT? We lock up people just for being Black, or Hispanic, or even White? I thought they were given trials, based on laws. Perhaps the statistics reveal something else may be afoot. Just my opinion of course. I might wonder if the stats for Russia, or even Cuba, might exclude those who just mysteriously or not, disappear.

Whatever, it's all our fault somehow.
Posted By: KC Jayhawk

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 02:44 PM

Nice response, Bobber, but probably wasted breath!! An apt quote from Winston Churchill:

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
Posted By: Otteralum

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 02:47 PM

Propaganda? To call a pot arrest political is quite the stretch.

I am no fan of the war on drugs (more aptly named "war on black youth") but that doesn't excuse jailing someone because they disagree with government.

If you avoid illegal activity that is plainly codified in the U.S., your chance of incarceration is nearly zero. I would argue that persecution for free speech is in a whole different league than persecution for pot usage -- please!
Posted By: Bobber

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 03:11 PM

And to paraphrase someone, somewhere: "Conservative thought strives for equal opportunity. Liberal thought strives for equal outcome." Just more pot stirring.
Posted By: Denny Shane

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 03:45 PM

[quote=ChrisW}Also:
1 in 3 chance of being locked up in your life time in the US if you are a black male.
1 in 6 if you are hispanic male.
1 in 17 if you are a white male.
[/quote]

Man, I am sooooo glad I am Irish-American.... skipped out again!
Posted By: Bobber

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 03:49 PM

How about me? Norwegian-American. I am sooooo white.
Posted By: KC Jayhawk

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 03:51 PM

We have a 1 in 3 chance of being boring. grin
Posted By: Sir Isaac Newton

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 04:20 PM

Bobber! If he didn't burn that bridge, the cubans wouldn't need innertubes today! Rascal Fidel!
Posted By: Marty

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 04:50 PM

http://www.belizeforum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=000407;p=2
Posted By: travelqueen

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 04:53 PM

Ha! Guess Rykat didn't go far!
Posted By: ChrisW

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 06:20 PM

The US prison numbers (and for that matter the US health care numbers) are a tough pill to swallow, but like it or not they make a clear statement about life in the US versus life in other countries. As I said before, there is no excuse for Cuba locking up political prisoners, but at the same time I would be trying to clean my own house before telling other people to clean up theirs.

The theory that the numbers are skewed only because China, Cuba, Russia, etc. do not report all their prisoners does not explain why the US jails 7x more than Canada, 11x more than Japan, etc. I think it is clear that there is a major problem in the US in regards to freedom.

As for what constitutes a political crime, any victimless crime is almost certainly a political crime as it was added onto the books by politicians interested not in preserving peoples rights but rather to benefit some group or another. More so, a victimless crime that is used to lock up 1/3 of the males of a specific race is most certainly a political crime.

I am sure in Cuba as in the US if you follow the letter of the law including the unjust political laws, than you will likely stay out of jail. Granted, the fact that we can complain about the political crimes in the US without fear of repercussions is nice...especially if you like beating your head against a wall as I apparently do.
Posted By: Otteralum

Re: Rethinking Cuba - 05/30/07 07:42 PM

this has been rehashed too many time here (and on other boards apparently). Cuba ain't all bad -- the U.S. has many problems.

My only issue is when the article stated in the original post here is held up as being a good indication of reality -- it clearly is not. Should we rethink Cuba?

Clearly, yes.
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