AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums Talk Belize Travel Big Brother .....

I'm with Pedro on this one too. I've gotten into numerous arguments at various venues when trying to cash a personal check and refusing to give my social security number. It says right on the card "not to be used for identification purposes". The state of Iowa used to have SS numbers on our driver's licenses, they've finally changed that.

I don't mind being searched when I fly, but I really don't want the airlines or the government knowing exactly where I spend my money.

I don't think I would be willing to give up all my civil rights, even for my kids. And after being raised by me (and my husband), my kids would agree with me.

What goes without saying? P2 makes a dozen points...clarify.

IMHO - I find the IRS Codes much more offensive (too much info)than how much information the US gov't collects on foreign travellers (or for that matter what the NSA collects by intercepting communications).
The most important civil liberty I have is my life. The ONLY thing I expect of my government is to protect that life.
Philisophical debates are delightful, however, at some point there is the problem of reality. Some accept what is visible in the world today, others bury their heads in the sand. Reality is that the US is at war. I would prefer NOT to disarm my government while it is fighting that war.
(Do not take this to mean I believe the gov't should be given Carte Blanche. I'm sure the ACLU, etc, etc., will selectively choose their battles). Just MHO!

Hope it's not too late then.

s&s, on air travel i have been with you. it is what i have to do for safety, i understand and follow all rules. but it is getting harder and harder. last (domestic) flight i was only 1.5 hrs early and they refused to put my luggage on and missed flight.

it isnt that which bothers me. nor to the IRS who i faithfully report everything to. like jean, i recently did some investing and had to give my ss# out a dozen times, and first time in my life it concerned me.

and, my private life is my own. i do not want anyone in my email or personal affairs.

as law has said on other issues, where does it end?

I can agree on private emails, personal affairs. I think if the gov. wants my SS number, passport number, or anything else that has to do with my flying/purchasingpower/traveling in and out of the country, I'm all for it. I change my email address often, so that isn't a biggie, and I don't have anything I need to hide otherwise. My bank accounts aren't a big secret, either. It's so easy to get a lot of this information online now, I'm just not going to worry about "big brother" getting his hands on it. If you don't want them to find out something, don't do it.
I hope it's not too late when if and when I decide to stop going along with it, but I'm willing to take that chance. I think the ACLU is a much bigger threat than our government when it comes to taking away rights. Our right to public prayer has been taken away because a few non-believers were offended. I think it has already gone too far. But, where our safety is concerned, I think it's important to cooperate. I hope no one is hurt ever again from terrorist actions, and if I can help in any way to deter another attack, count me in. My husband was to be playing racquettball at the Pentagon on 9/11, and I was in a total panic when I couldn't find him. I never want anyone to go through that. My heart breaks for those who lost loved ones. I will voluntarily cooperate with those in power to protect us.

Well said, s&s!

I know I am going to regret this, but its been a while since I did something I'll regret, so it's about time. I am just curious as to when the world changed. The only change I notice really is that the TV is full of scaremongering news and flying has become a real pain and far less pleasurable.

I can only recall in my lifetime - but haven't there always been wars, conflicts in the middle east, lots of bombs and people dying all over the world. When I was a kid we thought that the Russians were going to unleash a nuclear bomb on us and we were all terrified. As a younger person, I experienced many bombs, which killed people. At the time the people who did the bombing were known as 'terrorists' by some and freedom fighters by others, but now they are a legitimite political party with seats in government.

I can remember frequent bombings and planes being hijacked throughout my youth. So I just don't get how perfectly reasonable people have been so manipulated into believing that the world is somehow a less safe place (actually in most parts of the world it is statistically safer, which is evident in increased life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates - the biggest threat to human life immediately are cars). It is depressing to see so many people living in fear to the extent that they are willing to give up their rights to privacy. Any information or rights you give up now you will never be able to reclaim no matter who is in charge. If you happen to be someone in opposition to whoever is in charge in the future, you may find yourself seriously regretting having allowed someone to know your personal business. Not only that but this information will eventually be used by insurance companies, banks, credit companies, pharmaceutical companies (they are working hard on developing targetted advertising for drugs).

So, if someone could please explain to me when or how things changed dramatically in the world to make it a less safe place recently and how having my personal details will help make it safer, I would be grateful.

Good point, collyk. I agree that there has always been reason to be cautious, wars have been fought forever, planes have been hijacked, fear of bombings. I don't know when it started and don't know when it will end. I believe that human nature is good, and most people will do the right thing, and the promise of swift prosecution for the guilty may tend to keep some people from doing the evils. Unfortunately, the fear of God isn't instilled in a huge population, or the love of their God encourages radical acts. When we were growing up, our parents, or at least my parents, taught us right from wrong, we placed a value on human life, prayer was a part of our daily life, even if it was to just say grace at dinner and bedtime prayers. We were taught that if it isn't yours, leave it alone. If it hurts someone else, don't do it. I see every day, kids who couldn't care less if it belongs to someone else, if they want it, they'll take it, even if it means killing to get it. When parents leave the parenting up to the schools, the judicial system is afraid of what will happen to the judge if the gang leader is prosecuted, we ALL loose rights, even if they aren't publically stated. We lost control when we lost the compassion for eachother, when the kids had kids and had no idea how to be parents, when the "system" failed us. Now, it seems that a lot of people want the protection, but don't want to give up anything in order to get it. I don't know what the answer is, but I will gladly give up a few civil rights in order to feel safer.

Oh, and I don't know how giving up a few personal details will make things safer, but if it does, what's the worst that can happen. I mean, are we really so self absorbed or paranoid that we think the government is out to get us as citizens? If so, we should have thought about that a long time ago. I think they are happy we pay our taxes, and have bigger things to go after. If I'm wrong, I'll eat my words for sure, but I doubt they want my little piddly bank account, my investments, my credit cards..nope, I think they have bigger fish to fry.

colly, you cant see me but i am giving you a standing ovation. extremeists have exsited throughout history. as a non-practicing jew, my people have been hated and under threat and persicution for centuries. it didnt shake us. people freak when we tell them we are travelling abroad, say "omg, arent the people violent there, i'd never do it. we are goning to vegas instead." we have never had one iota of trouble overseas. it is the people right here at home that are the most closed off and self-serving.

s&s - who took away your right to public prayer? if you mean in schools, well, i am more or less agnostic, so i do not want that forced on my kids, nor the non=christians in their schools. BUT, what you say of kids, in my experience, is a US phenomona. i dont see it in my travels.my area people only care how others perceive them. must have huge house huge car designer clothes. to have this, both parents work full time and no one is left to raise those children but uneducated day care providers.(i stayed home with my kids for 11 years, and still do). costa rican kids had nothing, and they shared it. turkish kids would never steal, it is against their religion (they also do not drink at all and have respect for their parents to the nth degree). i only see the envy, separation from family and values, and financial competition here in the good ole US.

perhaps my issue isnt with the govt so much as where our materialistic society and media and the resulting envy and fear has taken us.