AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums Belize Life Living in Belize "San Pedro Taxes What do you think?" Open Thread

In the In the late 1990's. The Town Board was making this same noise about unpaid taxes and woe of no money to do anything because all 'these people' aren't paying their property taxes.I went to the Tax office in Belize city to search tax records for the Subdivision of Mata Grande, most of you know Mata Grande it has a mile long strip of beach front Hotels ,Restaurants and million dollar homes. I discovered The Taxes for the whole of Mata Grande where being paid to Belmopan by the person who had owned this Coconut Plantation for the tune of $467.bz per year. This has of course been corrected but isn't an exception.

Elbert is right on the money as usual.

Now that we have beaten property taxes to death I suggest we look at other sources of revenue. For a number of years I have asked that traffic laws be enforced and tickets issued. I have even checked to be sure that if a fine is paid the money would stay in the town treasury. People continuously complain about taxi drivers and now we have all sorts of motor scooters, motorcycles and ATV racing down our main streets.

NONE HAVE EVER BEEN TICKETED! Why - the lame answer is that you can't prove how fast they were going. I asked if there is a law against reckless driving - and there is - they could use that one.

The Mayoress wants the town to have its own police force. Whoa! There are so many allegations about corrupt police that they are rotated on a regular basis "to keep them from forming bonds with residents." Local police would already have bonds with the community and there are a handful of powerful families that run the town.

Laws were passed and warnings were posted about garbage. I have not heard of one cent being collected from this source.

I love living here but am not blind to the attitudes that prevail. The idea of "getting over" comes from the top down and many wallow in this foolish pride.

I better stop now!

I wonder why Amanda would pose a question to this forum and then lock it to replies? Sure seems odd to me.

That said, I believe Amanda's question is slyly posed. First of all, raising property taxes is not the only way to raise funds for municipal projects. It's just the UNIMAGINATIVE way to raise funds for municipal projects. Assessing hefty property taxes is the American Way of meeting municipal budget obligations but I don't think that nonsense should be copied in Belize. One of the beauties of living in Belize is that you can be assured of a roof over your head even in your old age because you know the government will not come to kick you out of your home over taxes. It is a beautiful thing and should remain the beautiful thing that it is. Don't mess with it.

Obviously, I would be unequivocally opposed to the raising of property taxes specifically because property taxes create undue hardship for the people who can least afford it -- the poor.

I would recommend, that a per unit Impact Fee be charged to any developer over a certain size intending to build on the island.

Secondly, I would start a lobby to have a percentage of the hotel tax collected revert back to the island for improvements. It is only fair. What does the BTB do with all that tax money that the SP Business Association / SP Chamber of Commerce, etc. couldn't do much better with and for less money anyway? Marketing? I think business people are much more capable of selling their products that some civil servants sitting in little cubicles who have never operated a business. Give the money back BTB.

Impact Fees would revert to the City Council to upgrade utilities, road works, etc. to meet the increasing demands caused by the needs of these large-scale developments.

Thanks and cheers,
Wendy Auxillou

Well, because I had not seen this post, I posted a public response to Amanda in another post. Amanda responded to my other post, and then blocked the post. So much for the all-knowing Amanda and her blocking of posts addressed to her. I was wanting to reply to something in her response and to my shock and surprise it was blocked. Amazing ting dat.

That said, I will quote her comment I wanted to response to:

"On the open forum one person could assume many persona and falsely slant the findings because there would be no way to verify their honesty." -- Amanda Syme

One question: And this exact thing can't be done by private email?

Sheesh!

Cheers,
Wendy

Impact fees can help with needed additional infrastucture caused by their development. But, it is a one time charge and the expenses of running and maintaining the needs of the community are on going. There is no correlation between development and social needs. It is wrong to expect that development would provide thru impact fees the funds needed.

There needs to be annual fees paid by the community to support its needs. Those fees or taxes need to be assessed equitably and it is a responsibilty of everyone in the community.

Solutions are needed and I am one that feels what I pay in property tax is far too little and should be considered as one of the solutions. I am not one that says tax someone else, tax the tourist more, please GOB give me more money. Before I do that I must feel I am paying my fair share and a couple hundred dollars tax for my condo is not paying my fair share - IMO. If San Pedro can run the town based on that level of property tax, it can make millions showing others how.

I'd say the start in this fund raising item is to collect what is already owed in a fair and reasonable way, and then not let politicians steal or squander it. IMHO there is plenty of tax money available and coming in - the main problem is where it goes after collection. GST, Business Tax, Import Duties and Hotel Taxes are agressivly collected from most companies and individuals - why, because there is enough money to warrant agressive collection. The monthly collections form a reliable cash flow for government.
Perhaps some penalties for late payment on property taxes would motivate payments? "But" first we need some good record keeping in Lands (which is in overhaul)to know who owns what - and then it would be really nice to mail out tax bills (which does not seem to happen on time if ever), and respond to taxpayers who call in to ask for their tax bills.

"There needs to be annual fees paid by the community to support its needs. Those fees or taxes need to be assessed equitably and it is a responsibilty of everyone in the community." -- bywarren

My response:

Yeah, but it would be grossly unfair for me to be taxed more to pay for your needs if my needs are far less than yours and I don't need the things that YOU need.

("Me" and "you" are only being used demonstrably to make a point and not personally.)

OK, fair enough, but what needs do you think I need that others do not? I am talking about police, garbage, sewage, roads, schools, health care, etc.

PS: Wendy, do you think I am paying my fair share of a couple hundred dollars on my condo at Banyan Bay?

And Diane, I would be pleasantly surprised if you are right that there is enough revenue coming in. I truly hope you are right but I have a hard time believing that based on the little knowledge I have - that being what I pay.

The needs assessment is called the town budget. The town council decides what the priorities are and budgets for them. Any additional tax is really a user fee. Basically, a population says " we are unable to provide a needed service within the budget and have to raise additional monies". A town then figures out a way to charge for a service. Usually these fees are not used for the operating budget but for capital expenses. So you can raise money outside the tax base for a road but not for salaries. Now this may be different in Belize but I doubt it is very different. The question is how to develop a fee system for the service of the police department. Maybe there could be user fees for some other capital budget items with any surplus within the budget going towards police. One certainly does not want to develop a separate agency to act as a police department. It is difficult to fathom how it can be done. Raising taxes sends money in to the black hole. There is still no way to tie it to specific departments.

In the recent past we discussed the implementation of impact assessment fees for developers. That ball is in motion and rates are being adjusted since the first assessments were considered prohibitive and would be a large factor in stopping development (not the intention.)

Yes, it would be great if the BTB were to give back a little of its collections back to the communities that generated the income.

It would also be great if a portion the gst & business taxes were left in the community where it is generated.

I pay 15% business tax. Most businesses that I see on the island tend to run between 1.75% and 3%. A few companies run a little higher. I seem to remember that the estimated monthly biz tax & gst combined from the island averages about $60K per month. So even if we kept all of those taxes I find it hard to believe we could manage the town efficiently.

But the vast majority of the people on this island do not pay income tax or business tax. Most of the people on the island either don't work or fall short of the income level where taxes begin being assessed and collected.

Although San Pedro would love to collect all of the tax dollars generated and keep them on the island we also have an obligation to contribute to the rest of the country.

I don't believe we are receiving our fair share of tax dollars. But I also don't believe that new developers and tourist taxes should be the only groups that should be taxed and bear the burden of the necessary infrastructure for this island.

I don't believe that the people that live on this island, that utilize the roads, the services of the police, fire department, health dept etc. etc. should get a "free ride" and look to others (such as new developers and tourists) to pay for such services in full. Some of the responsibility and burden must lie with the general population too.