AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums The Cayes Ambergris Caye San Pedro Shark Tournament

Come on Amanda that wasn't an attack on Belize. Only a statement about those who try to justify this behavior, which I'm sure is a small number of people there.

I don't hunt at all and I would NEVER attend a bull, dog or cock fight. Here in the US dog and cock fighting is illegal in ALL states now that Louisianna finally has come around regarding cock fighting.

No one here has tried to suggest that AC is exclusively participating in such acts. Such activities occur world wide, but a major differnce is that AC in particular being a location that thrives exclusively on tourism / "eco-tourism" should be far less tolerant of such activies. AC residents should be opposed to this activity as it hurts the "eco-tourism" image and therefore hurts their very livelyhoods.

Yes some locals fish for a living but who do you think they sell their fish to? The places that serve tourist. I am not aware of Belize having any shark meat export businesses.

with all due respect, amanda, does that justify it? i've stayed out of this, but that quote doesn't sit right, regardless of what the topic is.

I don't think this is an animal welfare issue. This is an environmental issue. No one would argue that the reef is not very important. Anyone who knows anything about life cycles understands that without apex predators such as many shark species (and crocodiles), other important species rapidly disappear.

It is unfortunate that a country that promotes itself as an eco tourism destination allows all sorts of things to continue. I'm thinking iguana egg sucking competitions, wholesale slaughter of parrots by citrus farmers, shark fishing, crocodile feeding, land fills, clearing of mangroves etc.

Belize is a young country and its position as an eco tourism destination is even younger. It has made huge efforts to protect the environment and it still has some way to go. Personally, I think Belize is doing a pretty damned good job. It is all well and fine saying 'in my country they do this and in my country they do that' but that means twaddle in reality.

If you want to use the USA as an example, don't forget that shark fishing tournaments are very common there, while dog and cock fighting may be illegal they are also extremely common. I am in the rural south of the USA right now and I can tell you that the average dog I see here makes the stray beach dogs in San Pedro look positively vital. I'm not even going to mention the endless roadkill dogs along the road (whoops I've already mentioned them). Didn't someone once say that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?- or something like that.

If you are an individual who happens to be concerned about shark fishing tournaments in Belize, the best thing you could do is to fund, organise or participate in an education programme about the importance of sharks to the Mesoamerican Reef.

Twaddle? I love it.

Pedro, go suck an iguana egg!!!

Okay, everybody that does not eat any animal products - we would like to hear from you now.

I want to step back from my earlier post about making it illegal, in that if this is a traditional Belizean practice and only practiced by them, it probably isn't too detrimental even with today's technologies. But if fleets of American and Mexican fishing mega-yachts and the attendant fishing toys they have on board ever show up for these tournaments, decimation could easily occur. Amanda's point is well taken.

Thanks for understanding what I am trying to get across without being shot at!

BNU - Well, since it was my comment that set your ass on fire, let me try to explain...First, I said that the shark tournament was a bad thing, and that those who felt strongly about it being wrong should let the sponsers know, and shop elsewhere. Then Elbert reminded me that San Pedro began as a fishing village, and many residents have their roots in fishing. It takes time to change behavior. I then mentioned that I understood his point, and that AT LEAST the shark was to be eaten rather then simply killed for a fin or left to rot. Would I eat shark meat, nope, didn't say that. Would I watch a dog fight, nope. Cock fight, nope. I would root for the bull at a bullfight. I further mentioned that Belize is wonderful about it's preservation of habitat. I don't understand what part of what I said lit the match. Please explain so I can avoid it in the future.

Colly, Why didn't you mention British fox hunting as an example. I know that it has now been banned in England, but both cockfighting and dogfighting are illegal in every state and a felony in almost every state. Animal cruelty in any form is a felony in nearly every state now. Federal law applies when any part of the illegal activity crosses state lines, and the federal penalties are very harsh...ask Micheal Vick, an American Football player who is now in prison. I lived in the rural south for several years. To say the dog fighting and cock fighting are 'extremly common' is an exageration to say the least. They do happen in some areas, and it's disgusting. ENDLESS road kill dogs? You make it sound as though the roads are paved with dead dogs.

The AVERAGE dog, or the average stray (homeless) dog makes the beach dogs look vital?. Dogs do get hit, sadly. I suspect it would be a common sight on AC if golf carts moved any faster. It is far more common to see a deer hit, and VERY common to see oppossum hit, but that's because they are common, and frankly, are not smart enough to know about roads.

I agree, and have said that Belize sets a great example of conservation and has set aside more than it's fair share of land and water resources for nature reserves. Again, bashing the US with extreme exagerations about all the starving dogs and countless road kill dogs hardly bolster your arguments.

Because Britain hadn't been held up as an example. Dog fighting in particular is very common in the USA. It is also very common in parts of the UK, mainly in rural areas. Much of the IRA's activity was funded by dog fighting both in the UK and the USA.

Watch the Panorama documentary on dog fighting in the UK, which you can download on the internet for more information. I am well aware of Michael Vicks, but he is the tip of the iceberg. I spent much of my professional career as an expert to the UK courts on fighting and dangerous dogs, so I am pretty well versed. If you don't think dog fighting is rampant in the USA, you are kidding yourself. Shockingly rampant.

I saw 7 road kill dogs in 90 minutes of road travel in GA yesterday (no deer, 7 possum). Well our definition of the term 'rampant' might be different. I know without a doubt that I could find a dog fight in GA, Fla, or Texas to attend this weekend without much effort.

How many dogs and cats were killed because they were surplus to requirements in the USA? Sorry Dutch, but either you are kidding yourself, or not reading the facts. The USA, from international perspectives (and I have lectured and worked on welfare professionally internationally for 20 years) is appalling I'm afraid in terms of animal welfare.

I just find it irritating when those with shite on their own doorstep don't bother to clean up their own mess before commenting on other's. The USA cannot, in any way, hold itself up as an example of good animal welfare practice. To pretend otherwise is utter hypocricy.

There are other 'western' countries with worse records (Spain comes to mind), but for such a wealthy and 'informed' country, the USA's animal welfare record is not very good.

You can be as defensive as you like but the facts are that the USA has a poor animal welfare record, as do many other countries. Please think about cleaning the sh*t on your own doorstep before telling other's what they should be doing.