AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums The Cayes Environment Go Green What would be the reaction if electric golf carts

were mandated? Would there be an uproar, or would the single best way to improve the air quality in San Pedro/AC be accepted? Are gas carts a status symbol that will not be given up? Is their speed so important to San Pedranos? Is there sufficient electrical supply to go all electric golf carts?

Every time I walk from the beach to the street, I am amazed at how bad the air quality is.

There was a time when 95% of the carts were electric. That worked out OK then as the roads didn't extend nearly so far and the range of an electric cart was sufficient.
Now a cart needs a much greater range to cover the island roads.

I use a gas golf cart because I am call 24/7 and I live 2 miles north of town. I might not have enough charge to get to town if I had just been using it.
All the dead batteries from electric carts are also a problem to the environment.

I understand, good points.

The dead batteries are supposedly collected by the Town Council and shipped to a battery manufacturer in Belize City where they are salvaged for re-manufacture. At least that was the plan/program years ago...

we are seeing more and more carts here as well.
i had thought about a 'charging station' up this side as the electrics also can't make the round trip.
questions:
how long to charge the normal battery bank in a cart?
could it be done at, oh,, say a bar while they had a few drinks?
can you daisy-chain an extra battery or two?

just curios.

A charger is a very good idea at any bar! It'll get drinkers to stay while the cart charges. I recently spent 2 hours at The Cloisters while my cart charged enough to get back home.
The carts are either 36 volt or 48 volt if newer style.
Back when Capricorn was the first bar up north that we could drive to, they offered cart charges and enticed many customers that way.

Electric carts are quite a bit heavier than gas carts and therefore have more of an affect on the roads.

HA!!! Can you document that statement?

A good set of batteries will easily get through 2 rounds of golf. If you figure about 7000 yards for an average course then add for shoelacing and it easily gets to 16000 yards or 9 miles.
Also they do recover somewhat if they sit for a while.

Gas clubcar dry wt 606 lbs - Electric clubcar dry wt 495 less batteries

The average golf cart battery weighs 63# X 6 = 378#, bringing the electric cart to more than 873 pounds......quite a bit of difference.

I should have added that to the weight of the gas cart you have to add 7 gallons of gas. Approximately 6# per gallon or 42 pounds....still quite a difference.

theres 6 bats in them things?

Yup...6 X 6v = 36 V...or 6 X 8v = 48 V. Costs about BZ1,200.00 to replace batteries!

Cost damn near $600 in the US, so it's about a push.

oh,, i thought they were 12volt bats,,
guess i was wrong.

Betcha most of the Placencia carts are gas.

That's a good point. They are usually only charged once a day, at night, and yes, 2 rounds a day is commonplace at our club. So they have a lot farther range than people may believe.

Bottom line, the difference in the air quality overwhelms these other considerations. Weight and battery disposal and relative cost are straw men arguments.

So, to get this back on track with a reality based discussion, would people's preferences for fast powerful gas carts preclude mandating electric ones for the sake of cleaning up the air of San Pedro?

Nine miles isn't enough range in San Pedro anymore. Just ask the cart rental operators.

OK, thanks for the info.

I have an electric cart and a normal trip to and from town with a few circles around town is at least 10 miles. I could easily drive another 5 miles without worrying about my charge. My batteries are about 1 year old.

Which is cheaper on a yearly basis gas or electric?

The mileage I put on my cart precludes electric but I would be interested to know what the actual operating costs are for each are on a yearly basis.

Excellent information, thanks. And kudos for using an electric cart.

you can recycle batterys

Good point. My guess is most of them are recycled. Heck, they were being recycled back when I was selling them in a ranch supply store in the late 60's.

Sorry Jesse,
6 volt batterys at any store here are $400bz plus or minus 5 bucks.
$2400 for a new set.

You just don't know where to shop.

enlighten me then

Although it is a big challenge (though not as big as an all electric mandate), I think a better long term solution to this problem would be to create a trolley system. The trollies could easily be electric with planned charging stations, it would generate money for the city, it would be infinately easier on the environment, and it would eliminate many of the other traffic problems that we sometimes experience (noise, crowding, etc).

The biggest obstacle to doing something of this nature is likely to be resistance from the taxi drivers associations. There are a great number of people who depend on their taxis for their livelyhood and this must not be ignored.

I used to have 50 electric carts on the Island in a rental fleet and I would say that contrary to most peoples thinking that the gas carts are MUCH GREENER that the electric carts are.
When almost everyone was using electric carts there were big piles of old batteries all over the island and in peoples yards, turned upside down pouring the acid into the ground, it was terrible.
Also, an electric golf cart is engineered to go as far as you can hit a golf ball, with two people on board, stop and cool off and go that distance again. Not take off for two or three or ten miles with four people on board and see if you get back or not.
I am sure that the Island is much better off with gas carts in the long run.

The issue here is air quality. It's a shock to go from the sweet clean air of the beach from the eastlerly breezes to the streets where the exhaust fumes are worse than any major city I've been in. Pollution control devices on cars have indeed improved air quality in urban areas. Gas carts are polluters of the worse kind with no emission mitigation. So to say gas carts are greener is just absurd. Used batteries are recycled, and are exchanged for cash by the stores that sell them.

But the question here is, would people accept a mandated switch, or would there be an uproar? This was the question posed. Are people so fond of the speed and power (and noise) that they would resist a switch?

It wouldn't bother me {personally} I prefer elec carts over gas carts. Way cheaper in the long run. NO noise pollution!! And only people who couldn't give a damn do not dispose of old batteries correctly.

The people would definitely not accept a mandated switch. How in your wildest dreams could you expect the people to AFFORD to just go out and by electric carts. And what would you do with the existing gas carts. Just a pipe dream!

HI THERE,

I am looking for a pilot to fly a Bn2a Islander aircraft full time or part time any one interested can contact me via email on the below

[email protected]

tel#: 592-623-7898 - my mobile .

"Used batteries are recycled, and are exchanged for cash by the stores that sell them."

Maybe in a perfect world, I seriously doubt that anything but a small percentage of batteries are recycled here.

Speaking of recycling, I don't see anywhere where all the used oil from gas carts and gas vehicles can be recycled. I talked to Caribeana and they don't do it. One good guess as to where it all goes.

Naturally, I would be all for an electric cart mandate, but that is because I already drive one. When this one dies, I'll get another electric cart. I have no desire to own a gas cart. I enjoy the peace and quiet of my cart and not having to worry about buying gas. My cart goes fast enough for me. Since I have lived here I have seen all the electric carts morph over to gas and honestly I don't like it. And now the gas carts are morphing over to the big polaris type vehicles. I understand some people need a gas vehicle to be able to cover the distances they drive but surely it is not a necessity for all.

Just my two cents.

HI THERE,

I am looking for a pilot to fly a Bn2a Islander aircraft full time or part time any one interested can contact me via email on the below

[email protected]

tel#: 592-623-7898 - my mobile

Rgs
Mr. Ryan Jaggernauth

Where are you?

Go out to the Town Council equipment yard south of town and you'll see batteries stacked neatly right-side-up awaiting shipment to Belize. The trash collectors will transport them for you if necessary.

Jags (Ryan),

You should put your ad concerning the post for a pilot as a separate topic.
I sent you a private mail. Check under my stuff tab.

Cheers,

Brian

That's a helpful response, and I agree with you. My thought was a long-term phase-in, five years or so, where when a person needs a new cart or to replace the old gas one, then they acquire an electric one.

The effect on the cart sellers and current gas rental fleets would need to be mitigated. No one currently providing a good or service that is in demand by the public should be harmed. Phase-in for them should be long term as well, and financial support from the government should be sought in exchange for the notion of cleaning up AC's air. Might become a model for the country. Grant proposals can be written and submitted.

Yep, they've been doin just that for years, I believe they get recycled in Belize by Renco.

The reply box kept limiting the length of my response (software glitch?) so I have to finish my thought here.

I mean the federal government, not local. If the cart sellers and fleet operators could be brought on board, it would have a chance. And I think only with their support would the local officials support such a drastic change.

I'm glad no one is countering the idea by saying the air quality is fine. AC is a world class destination, and cleaning up the air and noise pollution would seem to be a good idea.

No one has answered the question about operating costs which would highly influence the golf cart rental vendors. I'm not just talking about maintenance, I'm also talking about the cost of fueling the carts whether it be gas or electricity.

I have no idea what it would cost in elec charges for a commercial operation, but my bill runs about 30-40 Bz extra per month due to charging my cart. Bats are 2400 bz per set, they will last for four years if maintained correctly, so thats another 50 bz per month. Also cart rental agencys will not pay 400.00 bz per battery, they will get them cheaper{bulk}.

Any mandated switch to electric carts would have to be coupled with solar powered public charging stations.

Should cars or carts without aluminum chassis even be allowed on the island?

The bigger question is that if there is only Government funding for one project at a time, which makes the most sense to address first?


Trash pick up/recycling?
removal of batteries/metals/glass/plastics from the island?
replacement of Styrofoam food service containers with biodegradable ones?
banning of plastic drink containers?

We can sit here all day pounding keys with ideas of how SP could be better, and yet most of us would quit the jobs/lives we are faking while spitting out these ideas to move there full time in a heartbeat!

Until the everyday folks of Belize decide that they do not want to live surrounded by trash and poor air, then nothing else really will have much effect.

i agree with everything he said. wow.

Me too Jane. Don't you hate it when that happens?

For those who are the Right Winged Conservative Types - Here's your proof that the end times are near.

hehehe

Thanks for the thoughful post, pug. I don't see it as an either/or quality of life issue. And waiting until the people living there decide it's time to do it might merely be a matter of bringing the issue to the fore. It's for the children. Growing up in clean air might be a good thing.

Is the air that bad from exhaust fumes? A lot of dust when it's dry but exhaust fumes worse than Cities!!!! I don't see it.

Phil, I have to agree. We're usually down there 2-3 months at a time and I've never noticed the fumes from gas golf carts. Now I will say that there are a lot of trucks and other conventional type vehicles that are real oil burners, and in addition I'm sure the owners pull every pollution control device off, if they had them in the first place, in an attempt to conserve fuel.

'Attempt' is correct, go ahead and pull off all of your emission devices and see how well it runs then. NOT !!!!!

Amazing! You seem to know all about our community...and the practices here.
A new vehicle has warranty on it and must not be tampered with or risk voiding the warranty altogether. The vehicles are serviced by an authorized service facility and maintained to the same standards as in the US. No one is gonna pay upwards of BZ$75,000 dollars and let the warranty get voided.

[/quote]Amazing! You seem to know all about our community...and the practices here.[/quote]
Jesse, I'm not claiming to know it all, just speculation. Again, I feel the majority of the pollution, which IMHO is not that great, is coming from the conventional vehicles.

Jesse, spending approximately 6 months per year on the Island, I think I've learned a little about the community and it's lovely people.

Jesse, give me a break. VERY few vehicles imported to the island are new and under warranty. There are more gallons of oil (trans and engine) spilled from crappy old vehicles every day than there are vehicles under warranty. If they aren't old when they arrive they sure as heck are within a month. If you can show me one factory authorized mechanic on the island for any major brand of automobile/truck I owe you a case of beer.

Deliver my beer to Belican Supply on Coco Plum Drive. i'll give you copies of the mechanics licenses and agreements to service for dealers.

It all boils down to, how big of a carbon footprint do you want to leave... I can assure you that if everyone gave a little consideration to the problem the whole world would be better off. Now before you start casting stones, how many fossil fuel burning vehicles do you own? What do you do with the waste oil produced by these vehicles? What difference does a qualified mechanic have to do with anything? Now tell me that its only a small quantity, and in the long run does not make a difference. We are all guilty of passing the buck....

Jesse, if you can do it I will cough up. I am having a very hard time believing that there is even one FACTORY authorized mechanic on this island for anything other than Yamaha, Polaris or any other small vehicle/marine engine.

What difference does a qualified mechanic make? A huge difference. If you can't maintain a vehicle to factory/warranty standards you are not likely to be able to maintain the emissions standards either.

It's not a small quantity either. Almost every car or truck that comes onto the island seems to rapidly degrade into a piece of crap that spews emissions and fluids and heavily impacts the environment.

One thought, do any of these "authorized mechanics" of Jesse's have the ability to read the vehicle computer?

Thanks Simon, words well spoken, I'll add another case of beer!

Show me a mechanic who is GM certified for warranty work, and I'll bring them down a Tech 1 with a GM chip in it.

Lots of them in Belize City, I know of more then one person that brings them to the Island to tune up there vehicles.

I could probably get certified as a GM mechanic (up to 1970.) Anything else is a whole different ball game.

I don't really understand their complexities or how they work, I just happen to have one around.....

I also have a wife

Up to 1970....I wish, and contrary to popular belief there are certified mechs in Belize who have factory training.. up to date training and are very good at thier tasks, and everyone that I have met that owns "the big dark gas guzzeler" utilizes there services... so my question is whats your point? I don't agree that the the cars and trucks should be on ambergris caye, but they are...

But we're talking about mechanics on AC not the mainland.

No they are in Belize City, but the majority of the people I know that own a newer vehicle bring them out to tune up there vehicles, usually once a month, I am not saying everyone who owns a car or truck does this , but there are a number of people who utilize thire services. I know this because they usually do this at my place of work.

Just going off the top of my head I can think of maybe half a dozen owners here that would do that. You really need to see some of the vehicles here to understand. I had a piece of crap Toyota 4x4 on the mainland when I lived out in Indian Church that looked like a Formula 1 race car compared to some of the vehicles driving around the island. As for the newer vehicles you can tell within 6 months what kind of service they're getting.

i was just wondering if skippy, who started this thread and is pushing for electric vehicles and reduction of fumes, is pushing & speaking out for this same mandate in his own town, where he actually lives, or just on AC, where he does not?

If anyone is interested, about 5 years ago Princeton University did a study to examine the pros/cons of switching their fleet of 92 golf carts from gas/Club Car to electric/GEM... You can see their findings at http://web.princeton.edu/sites/peoc/apr142004minutes.htm

...some handy math there to help calculate emissions. Pretty eye opening.

-J