Could happen anywhere, sickened that it has to happen here.

Suggest vigilante style justice?

SIN

???? what ????

Not good.

http://sanpedrodaily.com/

Sorry, I still don't know what you're referring to. Would you let us know.
Thanks

That is horrible! Any more details???

Is this about the security guard at Fidos??

I am assuming it is. Any more info??

Never mind, folks. Just read the headline of the San Pedro Daily.

Look on the San Pedro Daily Website

I don't know I haven't been able to talk to Malcolm yet.

SIN I say hang the bums .from the tallest tree..but your right happens all over the world ..

is there an article or just the headline?

True dat CJ, hopefully these perps will "disappear" (NJ style) with no great sensationalization, poof.

People say, "Oh, this is bad for tourism". Ya think! But guess what, how about us that LIVE HERE!!

Something will be done, it's gone too far now.

SIN

No article, breaking news, just happened earlier this morning.

Funny, the perps involved with the Elvi's homicide/robbery are still at large (except for the one falsely accused and wrongly remanded).

SIN

This is was what I was told unofficially by a reliable inside source, doesn't mean it's fact but it's what I have:

The security guard was tied up (not handcuffed as is going around), gagged and beaten over the head. He apparently died of suffocation, not his wounds.

The following came from an unverified source:

The culprits have been identified as a group of 8-10 teens. I know who they are but it would be extremely unfair to name them not to mention libelous if the rumour was wrong.

Do we need to go back to public hanging to scare the crap out of some of these kids?

That poor security guard. May he rest in peace. Very very sad. mo

More than sad, disgusting! This community is full of so many good people, we need to band together and destroy the scum that aim to destroy our right to live in peace.

I hate to have to say this, but a few weeks ago when it was reported at the SE Neighborhood Watch about a group of teens, I almost got crucified........
I think it is time to admit that AC HAS a problem with crime, and deal with it. Yes, it may hurt tourism a bit, but it's better than having to deal with a Natalee Holloway story...
I realize that AC is a tourist destination. But, so is Jamaica and they are famous for their crime. They just don't try to sugar-coat things like AC does.
It is indeed a shame....

YES

Hanging is too quick.

only if you hang them by the neck

I concur with Ibanole.....and thought the same, back when she posted the info/concerns.

Many got upset, instead of taking action, to prevent. Don't think there will be any hangings, but the police should could arrest their asses, or are these bad people, connected to the higher up officials.

Several boarders posted of problems over the last year, and others denied the problems.

So sorry to know of his death, and his family's grief.

When something bad happens on AC, it is like it has happened in our own town.

Who would have the nerve to deny these REAL problems now? It's time to come up with solutions rather than argue about whether or not AC has a SERIOUS crime issue.

In previous posts it was indicated it was local kids responsible for jacking golf carts. The argument wasn't that the incidents didn't happen but that it probably wasn't local kids. The ones I've heard to be responsible for this incident are not what I would consider to be local (island born and not recent to the island.) I don't recall anyone being crucfied, there were just differences of opinion on who was responsible.

I also don't think that anyone has denied that there are problems just that certain incidents were blown way out of proportion to make it sound as if this was Kingston, Jamaica.

For those who don't live here it has only been recently that we have experienced such a crime wave (2 or 3 months) and the crimes have been directed at locals not tourists.

The problem is that there is plenty of finger pointing but very little action. In my opinion if the community leaders put aside their politics and came together and worked towards solutions we'd be well ahead of the game. Maybe we need a community rally in front of the Police Station inviting the media from BC.

"Who would have the nerve to deny these REAL problems now?"

Twice I've heard that comment but I've yet to see the evidence.

There is a big difference between putting things in perspective and denying that things happened in the first place.

Perspective......denying....get over those two, the security guard is dead.

When the smaller crimes started, one has to know crimes will escalate, if not cracked down on.

Often I think we visitors miss read, your wording, on events. You are kind in all matters, we are more harsh when speaking of crimes, then warm and fuzzy on fun stuff.

well I posted recently about drug probelms and was attacked by so many people that claimed they never saw anything. With drugs comes crime.

This is horrific. I wonder if these kids were high?

"When the smaller crimes started, one has to know crimes will escalate, if not cracked down on."

You're very right, the problem is that it doesn't seemed to have happened. The only thing that has happened is finger pointing.

For the record I do see this a serious problem but it is most certainly not an every day indicator of how things are on the island. Therein lies the problem, first time readers of the board can easily get the wrong impression of our community if the incident is worded in such a way as to indicate we have a huge crime problem. We do have a crime problem but is mainly opportunistic and seasonal and in very rare cases is it violent as happened this morning.

Drive to any convenience store in the US and ask them how many times they have been robbed then do the same thing here on AC. The answers will be very different. Perspective.

Gotto go until late tonight, can't wait to read the thread. Have a good afternoon and please send prayers for the family of the security guard (I feel very bad that I don't even know his name yet.)

FROM FM NEWS

San Pedro Police have detained four people in connection with an overnight burglary that left a watchman dead. Just before six o'clock this morning Police went to Fido s Restaurant and Bar on Barrier Reef Drive in San Pedro Town. They saw the body of 50-year-old security guard Antonio Almendarez. Almendarez was gagged and tied to a chair and had injuries to the head. Police Officers on patrol in the area reported seeing Almendarez alive and well sometime around three-30 this morning. Sometime between three-30 and six Fido's was burglarized and Almendarez murdered by the burglars. Police have asked the public s help in solving this latest murder.

Our town is grieving.


There has been a rash of burglaries here this last month. Information about it has been kept at a 'need to know' level. Evidently people get riled up, nothing changes and then it happens again the following year. That's just what I was told by a very reliable source who has been involved in the neighborhood watch organization.

Last week at the Chamber of Commerce meeting I suggested we post substantial award money for the arrest AND conviction of anyone committing a crime. I can't say that I felt a lot of support. I mentioned that when Pat Stiley and I posted the BZ $1,000 reward for catching the person poisoning our dogs IT STOPPED!

However, I was chastised (not at the meeting) and told that we have a minor crime wave here every year in the off season. What is said is that people are afraid to identify criminals for fear of recrimination by their families.

The Chamber meeting this Thursday will be dedicated to fighting crime. I'm sure the place will be packed.

It is larger than San Pedro and Ambergris Caye. Belize, as some know, is experiencing very difficult financial times. Adding the increased difficulties of obtaining a US Visa, people are getting desperate.

Not too long ago, I knew everyone on the island, or knew of them. Now, at times, I am concerned (not afraid) to drive or walk in certain areas. A new experience for me on AC, not one that I like.

I see people coming in from other areas of Belize everyday. Looking for work or looking for eazy pickens? I think both. But, San Pedro is not the place to come broke, as we all know, it is very expensive here.

Now we have hustlers, thiefs and thugs moving in on our island because they are "hot" in other areas of Belize. Extra desperate on SP, doing whatever it takes to survive, even murder now.

A very dangerous equation for our very fragile industry.

We have a serious problem in SP, not the US and not Jaimaca, so why compare?

Solution? Many. Talkers, finger pointers, "told you so'ers", even more.

Action? In a private session with various town fathers (not politicians) plans are being made.

Those who want to join forces please PM, together we can make a difference (I know, sounds corny but true).

SIN

Crackheads aren't so bold and too paranoid, but they'll thief your clothes off the line. No meth probelm here (THANK GOD!) Potheads would be too lazy. Cokeheads usually have funds to support thier expensive habit.

Yes, drugs are always a problem, almost everywhere, I believe the perps are just plain cold and calculating theives, not "high" teens.

SIN

Yes, together you can make the difference. (not corny at all) Truth.

Sad Day for sure.

...another punch in the gut for San Pedro!! Condolence to family and friends of Antonio Almendarez. I know many of these late night security guards...and they represent what is best in recent San Pedro residents. Obviously...the perpetrators are the worst!! These poorly compensated security guards are the first line against the increasing criminal element in San Pedro. I hope that "Our Man" gets a decent, honorable farewell.

I may be out of line here, but bear with me. I am the mother of a Marine. I belong to several groups online for service families. When one of our service members is killed in action, or otherwise, we have someone nearby who volunteers to collect e-mail condolences for the family, and to make a book of these. Unfortunately, I know two local families whose sons have paid the ultimate price, and I can tell you how much these books have meant to them. Is there someone in San Pedro who would volunteer to collect, print, and collate e-mails from the rest of us who can certainly relate to what the family of Mr. Almandarez is feeling, then deliver this to the family?

Bill and kris48 have made excellent points. It would be nice if the community came out in force to the funeral (given that it's in SP) to show our solidarity with his family.

Announce the time and place... I'll be there

Just talked to David from the morning show and hopefully they will be able to push the community to show their support.

Is Belize a free country for someone like me who is drug free? Hmmmmm....let me see...I can go to any of the 11 or so crackhouses on the island and buy ummm......crack. But, no thanks, I don't want to. It's not my "scene", I don't want to weigh 90lbs.

But, I can't buy a Beck's beer here. I can't buy 99% of the varieties of fine beer that are mass-manufactured on this planet (forget about the 1000's of microbreweries worldwide). It's illegal to import just about any decent beer to Belize. Try it sometime you're really desperate for some excitement. Even if you offer to pay 200% duty on the beer you're not allowed to import it even for personal use. Which is a shame because I personally know how to use good beer.

You've got a bit of a problem when the sale of hard, HARD drugs are treated with less urgency than the "illegal" importation of good beer. It means that our little country has its priorities skewed, it means that when it comes to preventing REAL crime and catching REAL crimminals we're on the wrong page. Events in San Pedro over the past month have proven this beyond any doubt in my opinion.

I don't know for sure if the crime wave over the past few weeks here on Ambergris Caye was drug related. I'm quite sure it wasn't beer related. (Oh man, if we rob the post office we can buy 3 kilos of beer).

The good news is that I'm free to cross the border to Mexico. There I can drink good beer. Some of it is Mexican. Some is imported. Mexico allows beer to be imported from different countries. Yet Mexico still has an incredibly healthy local beer industry. The "Superior" Beer Girls are still in business despite the passage of other beers to Mexico. It's my duty to try these different beers and I solemnly carry it out. I have to pay more than double for an imported beer, but at least I'm allowed to. And, I still enjoy my Mexican beer while in Mexico.

Just as I would still enjoy my Belikin Belizean beer here.

I know this post is on a ramble, I guess my point is that Belize has chosen the wrong crimes to fight.

Maybe the Saltwater Croc's should be the hired guns....works for me.

Very Sad day and Sorry to hear of this mans death I do send my condolences to his family...

My condolences to the family of Mr. Antonio Almendarez and may he rest in peace.

SIN, How is obtaining a US visa going to improve the economic situation in Belize?

I was very sadden when I heard what had happen in my island...Most of all I was sock. On Nov 2 it will be three years that this similar incident happen at Elvis Kitchen, and what happen? the man found with blood in the yard turned into crown evidence and was FREED. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM HERE IN BELIZE??? The crown witness mentioned in all his statements a man by the name of Clevland May AKA may may. I was not surprise to hear when he was arrested again on Tuesday 26/7/05 for questioning for the murder of the security guard at Fidos. The police officers here in Belize need to tighten their belts and do proper investigations. WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO NOW??? TURN THIS "MAY MAY" INTO CORWN WITNESS AND FREE HIM??? I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED. COME ON OFFICERS OPEN YOUR EYES AND DO YOUR JOBS...INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR CRIMES IN JAIL.
CONCERNED RESIDENT.

It always hits home more strikingly when a violent crime is committed in a small community. I feel for the family of the victim of any violent crime. It is also sad when people's vision of 'paradise' and a safe escape is marred by the real world. As is seen in any developing area, when you have a deprived community confronted with the prosperity and excess of a wealthy community sprouting on their doorstep, these things are inevetible. The only thing, in my opinion and experience, that will stem the tide of rising crime on AC is to make sure that the gap between haves and have nots does not get any wider and does not forge resentment and envy. Low wages, the exploitation of workers, outrageous excesses and waste all rub the noses of the poor in it and create a climate where crime may not always be condoned but may be tolerated amongst those who have the least.

I am not in any way saying what has happened is right or acceptable, but I am saying that unless some work is done to ensure that everyone on AC feels included in the growing perception of prosperity on the island, the paradise will not continue.

I am all for punishing the perpetrators severely, but that is closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

May Antonio Almendarez rest in peace....

My ramble for the day:

The police are just as upset and just as distressed as we are. Artful attorneys can utilize the technicalities in the law to get many guilty criminals free - often before the public has even heard of the crime. Our police force is doing its best and they are receiving better training and more central government support now than in any other time in this town's history.


Where are these teens parents?

I vote that all adults 18 years and older that are not gainfully employed be sent back to where they come from unless their families live here and support them.

The reason drugs are so prevelant in this town is because there is obviously a demand for it. And this demand is both from locals and tourists. We also have widespread prostitution - same type of demand.

Unfortunately, when a town grows from a population of 300 to 10,000 over 25 years the growing pains can be out of control at times.

It is going to take a strong community to reign the terror back in.


We cannot begin being vigalantes - this will simply compound the problems.

We can be ever vigilant. Start reporting suspicious activity, start calling the cops when there are bums loitering around your neighbourhood.

Many people complain that the cops don't come when I call, so I don't call! Well I have never had that problem. However, when I call the cops I ask them if they have a mode of transporation to get to me, if they don't I rent them a golf cart or call a cab or a water taxi.

The resources in this town for our crime fighters are extrememly limited, the governments coffers are stretched to the limited. If we want more help from the police, we might need to help them too.

For those of you that spend most of your time trying to avoid paying your rightful taxes - at least donate some needed money now. It can be to the neighbourhood watch or the chamber of commerce so that committees can target the most critical areas of need.

I am a great believer in capital punishiment. I think Belize city should re-erect the hanging noose in front of the court house, for everybody to see. That should be enough to weaken some of the criminals resolve, and then we should have a hanging or 2, or 3 - hey I can't stand the idea that my tax dollars pay to feed and house many of the death row convicts in Hattieville.

We have wild crocodiles and sharks...... I have heard that these creatures occasionally enjoy a midnight snack.

PROACTIVE SOLUTION (not acne medication):

ANTI-CRIME RALLY THU. JULY 28TH, 7PM in front of the Reef Radio Studio (across from Milo's Money Exchange).

All are urged to come and show ISLAND SOLIDARITY to take control of OUR ISLAND.

Please leave the political rhetoric and biased opinions on how to run things behind. This is a show of support and to voice everyones's opinion (even those we/you/I may not agree with).

The organizers believe this is the genisis of turning the tide on this vital issue.

See you there. SUGGEST THE WEARING OF WHITE T-SHIRTS.

SIN

FYI: Alcohol is a drug also, but this belongs in a seperate forum.

Collyk,I have a completely different perspective. The reason so many of these people of lesser means than some of us are on the island is because of the jobs that have been created by those with more wealth. The demand for restaurants, hotels and condos, etc is what is creating those jobs. And, people from not only Belize, but other Cental American countries are coming because of those jobs. Many of those jobs pay much more than these people could make in the countries they come from or even in other parts of Belize.

Further, criminal activity is criminal activity, and the net worth of anyone participating in criminal activity should not have and does not have under the law any bearing on that persons responsibility to obey the law.

If you do a search and read about the views on crime discussed on this forum in the past, it is appalling that it takes such a violent and horrible act to get some people to realize the seriousness of the situation and not dispel it with the faulty logic that Ambergris is more safe or has less crime than other places. Only when the people who live on Ambergris Caye and also those who visit are willing to recognize the seriousness of the problems will there begin to be solutions to the problems. You can think and wish that Ambergris Caye is the paradise you want it to be, but it will only be that paradise when it is made and kept that way by people willing to recognize problems and address them. They are not going to go away on their own.

Security Guard Killed in San Pedro
It's the most popular tourist destination in Belize but, it is still in Belize, and San Pedro's prime tourism status gives it no ease from the wave of violent crimes sweeping across the country. Still, tonight the residents and visitors in San Pedro are in stunned disbelief after a security guard was killed at a prominent establishment in the center of town.

Popular restaurant and entertainment center, Fido's located on Barrier Reef Drive was the scene of the vicious homicide of 50 year old Antonio Almendarez. Alfonso Noble found out that the security guard was killed for a few thousand dollars.

Alfonso Noble Reporting, [[email protected]]
Fido's Entertainment Director Tony Brown and other employees looked on and wept in disbelief and grief this afternoon as the body of 50 year old Antonio Almendarez was taken out of his place of employment in a body bag. Amidst a throng of onlookers it was carted down the steps of Fido's in downtown San Pedro and placed inside a police pickup truck and transferred to an awaiting boat from where it was taken to Belize City for a post mortem.

Almendarez was the watchman for Fido's and police believe he was killed sometime between 4 and 6 this morning in a robbery. Brown says he saw Almendarez at around 12:30 last night when he helped him to lock up the place.

Tony Brown, Entertainment Director - Fido's
"I came here at midnight last night to bring the keys so he can lock up and then I left and then I got a call that he's dead. Last night 3:30 in the morning I had a dream about my mom dying and I wake up and I don't know what's going on. Then I came here at 6:45 this morning and found out this happened. I closed the place with him last night."

Thereafter Almendarez was seen talking to another watchman at around 3:45 this morning on the beach. That is the last time he was seen alive.

Police believe robbers caught Almendarez inside the establishment and bashed him to the right side of the head with a crowbar. They then placed a cloth inside his mouth and taped it. His handcuff was used to secure his hands at his back and he was made to lie face down on the ground where he died either of asphyxia or from the blow to the head. Thereafter the men made their way to the upper flat of the building where they pried open a safe and made off with a cash pan that was inside the safe.

Police believe the robbers made off with US$6,000 in 50's and 100's and about BZ$2,000. Today everyone on the island was totally shocked at the events of this morning.

Tony Brown,
"Usually its all good. Nobody ever messes with this because he says hello to everybody and he's just a normal person and then they just came at him. We don't expect this."

And while a killing was totally unexpected businessmen on the island say that crime has escalated over the past couple of years. Just this year alone businesses have been the prime target for burglaries.

Tony Brown,
"You see all these robberies going on in San Pedro right now? All these craziness going on here and there is not one police patrol. Not one on this main street with all these businesses. These officers are supposed to protect us, that's there job and there was not one on the street with all these robberies. It is not even safe for the people. They robbed the post office, they robbed this place, they robbed the place next door the night before. They should patrols on the main street where the economy is coming from. They should protect the businesses because its not people they have to protect because there are no people on the streets, they have to protect the businesses. How can you rob a post office? You know what I am saying. In the United States how can you rob a post office?"

Tony Bono, Businessman
"When I came here in 1998 everyone one of these docks where the water taxis come and go and at the airport, you saw a police presence. You would see them shaking people down. There was a police presence. Man I could go anywhere on this island, that's why me and my wife moved here. In this last year you do not see a policeman, you don't see them. They don't walk the beach, they don't check people coming on and off these docks. At night there are 2 or 3 on duty when there should be more on duty at night than during the day. I've been burglarized five times since I've been here. I've caught the thieves twice and they didn't do a day. I never got anything back, no reparations - no nothing."

Now that feeling of helplessness has at least one businessman looking at his options.

Tony Bono,
"I am going to go to Belmopan, as a policeman suggested to me, because we own apartments, we own a bar, and I'm going to get permitted for a gun now. It's gotten so bad that they stop golf carts down south to rob people. Anybody tries to rob me I'm going to take care of them. Anybody touches my wife I'm going to take care of them and here's why, and this is documented here, look at an old man beaten to death. They robbed the Co-op three days after lobster season opened. How do you rob a post office? Alright. I mean there's no police presence. There has got to be policemen on the street at night walking around, not all in the police station."

Tony Brown,
"These babies on the beach right now, they see the yellow lines and everything but what are you going to tell them? Somebody came and killed the man? I am not going to tell no baby that. Somebody came and killed a man unarmed and they are supposed to feel safe about the future of their country?"

The yellow tape that ran across the usually peaceful beaches of San Pedro gives him the answer and that is that maybe why San Pedro may still be La Isla Bonita but in these days, beauty is tainted by the appearance of crime's ugly under belly.

Police have picked up a pair of suspects in connection with this crime. They are two young men accused of robbing the town board of its safe less than two weeks ago. They had been remanded because they could not meet the $10,000 bail, but when they re-applied to court, against the police prosecutor's objection, the bail was lowered and they were released pending trial. Now, as the investigations progress, they may face charges again.

Given the increase in wealth on the island and the fact that those that are the wealthiest are in a position to help the poorest (who cannot pay for a water taxi or golf cart when they need police assistance), wouldn't it be useful to start a fund to provide proper support for the police to fill the gaps in financial support that the government obviously cannot or will not fill.

Incidentally it is usually the poorest (the security guards etc) who suffer the most from crime. Those who have been robbed of money are victims of material crime. Those that lose their lives protecting money are usually not paid very well.

Bywarren,

I don't disagree with you in the slightest. I understand that those who may be committing some of the serious crimes on AC are not from the island. But remember that before the wealth, there were many people of limited wealth on AC and throughout Belize. The problem is whenever wealth develops in close proximity to poverty, crime will increase. It happens everywhere. All over the world. I do not negate the seriousness of the crimes and think it is bloody awful for anyone directly involved. Nevertheless, people need to be aware that in a poor country, where education is not free, opportunities are few, unemployment is high and disenfranchisement is high - the frustrated young who feel that they have no hope will commit crimes against both rich and poor in an opportunistic fashion. If there is not sufficient resources to police this, combined with a perceived increase in disparity between both populations, people will have to choose between living in isolated 'gated' communities or find a way of reducing the inclination of disaffected youth (may I say they are primarily male) by providing or forcing the government to provide outlets and opportunities for them. Whether in the form of national service, vocational training etc. I hope to live on AC in the not to distant future and do not see it as paradise. But I feel sorry for those who do and who have had their illusions shattered. I completely agree that it is sad that it has taken the death of a 50 year old man who has given his life for the sake of a few thousand belonging to someone else to motivate people to get together to do something.

Marty,

Thanks for allowing the post to remain up.

Are you in country?

Any ideas on a crime stopper web site for AC where folks can assist in making a databse of incidents with full details. Maybe a stupid idea but thought maybe someting may help to pin some stuff on these criminals. As you know, most walk out of out courtrooms.

How our little island has changed. Hopefully we can get it back to what is was like, even half way would be good for now.

SIN

In response to an added message concerning the elvi's kitchen robbery/murder,from someone claiming that A suspect was falsly accused and jailed. The information given to convict those offenders was accurate enough for our justice system to convict those individuals,and should be respected by all,and is in no way connected with the Fido's incident just because a crowbar was used to hurt the victim and open the safe,which is a logical tool for someone trying to open a safe.The Elvi's kitchen murder suspects ,no matter the role in the robbery, should all have been sentenced the same,,LIFE in jail.,,in exchange for the life they all particapated in taking,(even the suspect at large).The same should be done to the offenders of the Fido's case, when hopefully solved soon.

zapmad, I concur! Great idea! However, I like to party till the sun comes up so I don't know about that curfew idea...

Collyk ! You have got to be joking.
After an incident like this ther always emerges at least one who will make excuses for the guilty.
"Punishing the perpetrators is closing the gate after the horse bolted" What garbage!
What experience could you have possibly had (not that anyone really wants to know) that would lead you to believe that WE must make sure that the gap between the haves and the havenots does not get any wider(Communist Manifesto?)"
Instead of listening to Collyks' psuedo social pscho garbage listen to SIN - Proactive Solution - Island Solidarity then catchem' try em' and hang em'
Rykat

Amanda "For those of you that spend most of your time trying to avoid paying your rightful taxes - at least donate some needed money now." Fine, I'll personally be donating over $100,000BZE in taxes this year, our island tourists will donate over $30m in taxes this year, could the government possibly be persuaded to send 20% of it back to our island so that we can take care of our problems?

I have no time for government cronyism. It is time the government recognised that San Pedro pays more than enough tax to take care of her pressing problems.

zapmadcitizen...what you say is the way to go... this makes real sense..while I am a gringo with no say in local politics and laws..I will as a condo owner at royal palm pay what ever it takes to help make the island safe for decent people to live..and if you commit murder..no life sentance .. you just hang the villain the odds are good they will not kill again !!!!!!!..the hell with the liberals..

Paying your taxes is not "donating." That is the price you pay for the priviledge of making a living here. It is good to hear that you are paying so much in taxes though - just goes to prove that somebody is making money in this town.

But just to recap - I said those that are NOT paying the taxes that they are supposed to should consider donating.

We have a number of serious social issues that need to be addressed - including legalizing those immigrants that are working for less than minimum wage and cannot enroll their kids in school because they are illegal. If our Central American immigrants could become Belize residents they would be better paid and could provide an education for their kids. Not to mention they could pay into the tax system.

Few "havenots" live in areas that the police can't walk to - they live close to town where the majority of the jobs are.

I like the idea that San Pedro Town have its own police force, they would be paid a higher wage, be provided better living accommodations, be provided suitable vehicles and fuel and training to protect this island from the bad guys. The police wouldn't have to worry so much about procuring their monthly allotment of petty cash, stationary, bullets etc. San Pedro would pay for those items. We could fast track the bad guys through the system and put them where they belong. At the moment our police are understaffed, overworked and do not have the necessary tools, and in some cases, training, to adequately get the bad guys off the street. If San Pedro Town could wrestle control of patrolling out "borders" ourselves, we would be in much better shape.

I'm for a local police force. One where the police spend a career in one town, getting to know every family and where everyone lives. Also, they get to know the "Bad Boys" and can better keep an eye on them.

Great ideas guys! I love the idea of throwing stuff out and seeing what sticks. Good ideas, bad ideas, crazy ideas will all be considered, boiled down and the end result will get SP back on track.

At one time SP had FIVE (5) Tourism Police officers. Boats passengers used to be questioned and searched. But again, civil rights must be observed.

If Scottsdale, Highland Park, West Palm Beach and such can have "Private Security Forces" than so can we. Maybe an idea that may stick. It'll cost, but I'm sure a suitable arrangement can be met.

Or we could call one of the families back east and set up a protections arrangement. Capt. Jeff, can you make the call to the families? They could pick up the trash while they are at it. Just kidding....

It's so frustrating, like Chris above, huge taxes are being forwarded to Central Gov. We get shafted. But we can't set back and cry while we get hit by a TSUNAMI of crime. We need to go balls to the walls and show the remainder of Belize how to take control of a situation!

Perhaps more rallies will pop up around Belize. Wishfull thinking I know, but, we won't know unless we try.

I wouldn't even leave it to the Town Council. A professional association dedicated to protection and security.

Keep the ideas comming and maybe one of the fine writers/lawyers on the forum can summarize all the ideas in an organized schedule.

SIN

Here's an old scab that I will finally pick. Several years ago, I "reported" a riot at the then Lion's Clinic on my "anti-social" thread. I thought the "gringo" community would never talk to me again. Lots of cold shoulders!!! It was suggested that I should personally apolize to the Mayoress and Area Representive. I did not do that...although I did apoligize to Marty for shaking so many cages. This head in the sand...keep positive...approach is reaping its reward. Let's get real, here!! Denial of problems is a prescription for them to continue and get worst.

Capt Jeff, I too believe in capital punishment. zapmad.. i don't believe for a moment that supporting a death penalty makes one just as bad as the criminal. there is more to it than that. just because we have different views doesn't mean we lack morals. at the same time i can respect your opinion that you oppose it. i don't agree, but that doesn't matter <<offers handshake>>

I think everybody that has been posting about this horrible incident is simply expressing concern, sympathy, and sharing different ideas and beliefs about how to make a tough situation better. Many of us may differ in opinion, so what??? I for one feel helpless that I can't bring dinner to his grieving family or start a fund to help those he left behind. So, I post a few words to you great folks that I haven't met but feel good knowing and I say a few prayers. Can one of you carry an extra candle on my behalf at the rally?

Perhaps candles should be sold for $5 or $10 or $20 to benefit the fatherless family?

Rykat. I am not joking. Punishing the perpetrators after the crime is committed is exactly closing the gate after the horse has bolted. Hello. Someone is dead. It wasn't prevented. All of the residents on this list are stating quite clearly that there has been an ongoing problem that has not been addressed. Punishing the perps will not bring that poor man back.

What experience have I had. Well I am a behavioural psychologist who has studied the effects of punishment for some time, so I suspect I have some understanding in respect to punishment and it's benefits. If you had read my post correctly, you would have seen that I stated that the perpetrators should be punished severely.

Please make no effort to make the gap between the haves and have nots any wider as long as you are happy to live under seige in a community where people have their noses rubbed in prosperity which is beyond their possible dreams. This is what has happened in underdeveloped countries with communities full of wealthy foreigners all over the world. It is not rocket science and it certainly is not a manifesto. Personally I would rather have my neighbours like me and not want to rob me. Or at the very least would prefer them not to protect those who have robbed me. What that has to do with communism, I am not sure, or is that just terminology that you feel is insulting.

There is nothing wrong with catching them, trying them and hanging them. It goes a long way to making a society feel protected. But it has been proven many many times all over the world (especially in the USA) that capital punishment does not prevent or reduce crime. It can make those who are fearful feel a damned site better and I personally have very little against it.

Either way, Rykat, I would suggest that you save your rhetoric for those who have committed the crimes and those who have failed to prevent that from happenning. Shouting 'commie' at anyone who does not immediately spring on the hang draw and quarter bandwagon can be very unbecoming and rather unhelpful to a discussion which is primarily about dealing with a serious crime issue in a small community.

A friend suggests chopping off thieves hands. Other thieves may think twice after noticing their parntners with no hands. Almost like a death sentence here in Belize.

Dramatic? yes, effective? I don't know?

That is a punishment which is used in some middle eastern countries. Amongst the very poor it has not proven tremendously effective and has led to many problems with begging amputees.

...let's unleash the rath of the "behavioural" psycologist on those thugs. That IS cruel and unusal punishment!!! :rolleyes:

Or how about a "behavioural proctologist"?

ha ha ha

collyk, I believe Belize is not exactly like many other countries of Latin America, we do not have such a visible dissparity of wealth , as few Belizian are extremely wealthy. San Pedro is now home to many expats who have homes and condominiums here. In the past few year quite a number of sumputious homes have been built, but most homes and condos are occupied by people who are only here for a few weeks or a month a year. Obviously, they are not always in tune with the problems of the community. I might add that many of these people I know personally and they have been very generous in giving money for need projects or helping families in need. The majority of expats who reside here on a full time basis are working people who are not wealthy by any means, but have a strong sense of community and do give much time to community projects. San Pedro has been cultivated as a tourist destination and as such attracts foreign investors. I believe any programs dealing with social reform can only be achieved by Belizians. In the meantime the increase of violent crime affects us all, and needs to be addressed now and in firm fashion.

...too funny, Jesse!! Butt-boys to the rescue!!!

I don't want to take away from the current issue, but remember a few months ago when one of our owners (not a resident) was "hit by a projectile"? Many doctors have said it was a gunshot, however, he still to this day hasn't been able to get a police report from the SPPD. No evidence was ever found, no one questioned, and there was pretty solid evidence turned into them. They all wanted to "keep it quiet" since it was high season. This person is still reeling from his injury and lack of proper care. His life will NEVER be the same. I bet he isn't singing the praises of the cops.
That's how things like this happen.... it's just like my going to the cookie jar. I know I can't continue to eat cookies, or I'll gain weight.... but one cookie won't hurt, ok, two, three... Then, all of a sudden, I've gained 7 lbs.... How DID that happen? It happened gradually. Criminals have barely had their hands slapped, and newspapers have been threatened, so everyone on the outside thinks that SP is one big happy family. The crime there is horrendous!!!!!
I know that will make some residents very mad, but just know that YOU or your CHILDREN might be next....
Crime is crime. Laws in Belize are liquid (as my attorney said). It depends on who is paid, how much, and how high they are in government. You can get away with anything, theft, perjury, attempted murder, and now.... maybe murder.

Hey, Capt Jeff, are we related? Can you help rid of the SP streets of the strunz??? Che peccato.

Vicki my love you hit the nail on the head.. we need a sit down on this and quick..somone needs a fast beating .this is a shame..we all need to do the right thing on this......

Collyk!
Youre last two posts are even more pathetic than your previous posts.
catch em', try em', HANG em' and bag all the liberal jibberish.

time for a thread lock........

I concur with most of these posts.

Yesterday and today are the only 2 days in 12 years that I was happy to here at home, INSTEAD of walking the San Pedro beach to Fido's for a cold Belikin. SAD for sure for all.

Amanda,

I agree with you, we pay taxes.

The government doesn't actually send any of that money back to our island for meaningful infrastructure development. What they do is use it to guarantee bad loans to their pals and to build beautiful roads in Belize City for cruise ship passengers.

If we pay MORE taxes will that situation change?

20% of what we pay in taxes should come back to the island, is that too much to ask?

What he said.

Jesse, Chris, the honorable (honourable?) Mr. Thorton, and the rest who know who you are, as usual I completley agree with your respective takes on this. The balance of this thread is mentally stimulating, but mostly out of the real path here. "Behavourial". Excuse me.

Me Too.

Jessee said "Or how about a "behavioural proctologist"?" And SIN laughed.

I laughed too . . .thinking how many of the incarcerated end up finding out about that sort of thing (no pun intended).

So yeah, catch 'em, try 'em, hang 'em out to dry, er, put 'em inside with some other incarcerated "bp's".

Having said that, incarceration doesn't always seem to be a big enough deterent from future offenses.

Let me add some thoughts to what I think is a good thing going on with this topic. That being concerned people starting to recognize a problem and wanting to find solutions.

I remember the first police officer assigned to San Pedro. His name was Smitty. You would only know Smitty was the police officer if you knew him. He was most always in civilian clothes with the exception of when some official event required him to wear his uniform. And, he very seldom was needed to perform any official duty as there was hardly ever the need for a policeman. The community, I stress the word community, was opposed to any kind of illegal activity and it was unaccepted for anyone to break the law. One instance that exemplifies this is a son of one of the fishing guides that I knew well was caught stealing an outboard motor. The family was so embarrassed that they expelled their own son from the island and did not allow him to return until he had convinced them he realized his sin and would never do it again. True story.

My point being, the first step in solving this problem is for the community to have the standard that crime is not acceptable. The community must come together. San Pedronos, gringos, expats, other Belizeans, all. Crime against anyone is a crime against all. Somehow it must be understood that all who live on AC are effected adversely when crime is committed.

I certainly do not have the answer on how you get all of the different factions on the island to come together, but I firmly believe that the only solution that will work is to have all working together for a common goal.

So sorry to learn of the death of Mr Almendarez. I've been reading your posts with interest and you certainly have reason to be concerned. Without an honest and dedicated police force, not to mention the lack of sorely needed equipment to perform their duties, you are facing real problems. Good luck sorting it all out. A large showing of community support at the funeral will send a strong message to all involved.

I'm no behavioral psychologist and we ALL know nothing will bring this poor man back to life but I'm of the opinion there has to be a system in place to deter such behavior. I am sure there are just as many studies that have been done that do support the death penalty as there are that do not support it. Where did you earn your degree, collyK? They failed to teach you how to spell behavioral.

Family members have just returned from a weeks stay in your paradise and had only positive things to tell upon their return. Beautiful beaches, top-notch snorkeling, a productive fishing trip with a super guide (Louis, I think), great restaurants and only two days of rain. They were especially impressed with the cleanliness of your shops and the resort where they stayed and not one bug was seen. As far as drugs--I specifically asked and they were offered drugs only on Caye Caulker. Verdict: They definitely would return to AC for future vacations. No surprise to you residents, I'm sure.

Semper Fi, Kris48, and all brave Marines!

I am sad to learn of this loss. A close friend of mine was murdered two weeks ago and I know the deep grief this brings. I understand too the anger, fear and frustration that comes with a situation like this. My prayers are with this family and the small community of San Pedro.
I am pleased to see calls for working together to come up with creative ways of deterring future acts like this, as well as other types of criminal activity. I especially appreciate bywarren's comments which note that family and community attitudes go a long way toward determining what will be acceptable in the community. I'm also not surprised to see many calls for execution. The desire for vengeance has long been nurtured in our societies and generally promises a satisfaction and relief it can never bring. I'm not against punishment - it serves a variety of purposes, the most important of which should be to protect society from future harm. That said, there is little debate that capital punishment does not serve as a deterrent to future homicides.
Studies which compare homicide trends in states and countries that practice capital punishment with those that do not consistently show that capital punishment has no effect on homicide rates. The first of the comparative studies of capital punishment was done by Thorsten Sellin in 1959. He was a sociologist at the University of Pennsylvania, one of the pioneers of scientific criminology and instrumental in setting up the government agencies that collect statistics on crime. Every comparison he made led him to the "inevitable conclusion . . . that executions have no discernable effect on homicide rates." His work has been replicated repeatedly as new data have become available, and all of the replications have confirmed his finding that capital punishment does not deter homicide.
There have also been national and international comparative studies on the impact of abolishing the death penalty. In an examination of 14 countries that abolished the death penalty, it was found that abolition did not cause an increase in homicide rates. The research in both these areas has been convincing to most criminologists.
On the other hand, there have been some studies that use econometric modeling, also known as multiple regression modeling, some of which have found a deterrent effect in the death penalty and some which have not. In general these studies have been found to lack sufficient empirical data to be of much value. This method has consistently failed to offer reliable and valid results in studies of social problems where the data are very limited. Its most successful use is in making predictions in areas where there is a large flow of data for testing. The econometric literature on capital punishment has been carefully reviewed by several prominent economists and found wanting. There is simply too little data and too many ways to manipulate it. The Death Penalty Information Center provides fairly balanced information on this topic. (www.deathpenaltyinfo.org)
I'm an attorney - 7 years as a criminal prosecutor - started law school as a strong proponent of the death penalty and went to work feeling the same way. Education is an interesting thing - almost 10 years later I resigned my job as a prosecutor because I was unwilling to prosecute a capital case. There are lots of reasons (moral, ethical, religious, fiscal, legal, due process considerations) to be against the death penalty, and really only one reason to be in favor of, but former posters are correct - everyone is entitled to their own view. And it is also unlikely an argument on this board is going to change anyone's mind either way.
I pray the citizens of San Pedro are able to come together to find workable solutions to the problems they face which are common to us all.

The alternative to the death penalty is life...something that Belize cannot offer or promise. until that problem is solved, death is the only solution.

Collyk, so are you living next door to a half way house for violent criminals? Do you donate 1/2 of your salary to the poor junkies down the street, who can not help their addictive ways?
Or is talk cheap?

Chris, as one who pays as little taxes as I can I detest what I am about to say. Perhaps SP needs it's own tax. Maybe a sales tax, or room tax, or add on property tax could be used to get some revenue for the town. Just an idea.

Jesse - it's my understanding that there has not been an execution in Belize since 1985. While death by hanging is mandatory for murder in Belize, the prerogative of mercy lies with the Governor General, who is advised by the 10-person Belize Advisory Council. Since 1985 numerous
death sentences have been handed down, though none have been carried out. Were these persons all released or are they incarcerated for a life term (which offers the same protection to society against their future crimes that execution would)?

The final authority is the Privy Council in London, however there is a new final court to serve the Caribbean, just now coming on-line. Problem in Belize has been that the prison doesn't seem to be able to contain the bad guys when they decide to escape.

Thornton's Law of Diminishing Punishment states: "no one who has lost his life as punishment...murders again." :rolleyes: PS. News of the suspect being out on bail for a previous robbery is very troubling. Why should a criminal gain reduced bail just because they can't pay. PSS. Hope they forfeit his bail :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He'll probably be out on bail again.

indygal, unfortunately under present Belize law the Town Council, even with the best of intentions, cannot charge higher taxes without approval from the government. The government is one party, the town council another and there is no love lost between the two. Co-operation, although much needed, is unlikely.

I'll say it again, the government of Belize gets enough tax money from our island, they just need to allocate a relatively small percentage back to us so that we can fix our pressing problems.

I'm not going to get into a detailed conversation about the effects of punishment, but the extensive research is there on the net for you to find if you are interested. It seems that some people have decided that they want to argue politics and/or be personally offensive. I made it very clear that I feel very much for the people who have been effected by this. I also made it very clear that I feel that the criminals who did this should be punished severely and that I have no opposition to any type of punishment which will make the residents of AC feel safer. Anyone who knows me knows that I am about as far from liberal as one can be, but that is neither here nor there.

Now, to those who have taken issue with my comments or typos: Rykat I am sorry that you think that personally attacking me is going to offer anything constructive to either the people of AC or to the debate. Seashell, the behaviour of proctologists would indeed make an interesting study (I would love to know the motivation of people who choose this as a career path). Emmy, I I apologise deeply for any offence caused by my late night typo, clearly it has caused some great distress for so many to feel obliged to comment on it (as a typo is so relevant to this debate)but I am glad I brought some happiness to the very angry (oh - we spell behaviour with an u in the uk, so that adds somewhat to the confusion/amusement I'm sure). indygal, funny you should say that - I live directly opposite from a care home for teenagers who have either committed serious crimes or who have been abused and yes I donate to them regularly and am involved with the staff and management - we didn't even know they were there until one of my lodgers was beaten up by one of the residents on the way to the shop (and yes we pursued prosecution but our own useless judicial system didn't give us results).

Now I hope I've addressed those of you who have responded to me personally although I feel that this is all way off the subject and again just want to express my support to the residents of AC and those affected by this crime there.

:rolleyes:

I'm not sure what's more offputting for the potential tourist - the crime itself, or the lynch-mob mentality posted herein - it's pretty scary - hanging, curfews, sounds a bit like Iraq under Saddam!

How about going back to the old west style of justice. Get a secretive group of guys together and when they find out who the persons responsible for these crimes are, find the right time and place and take out these criminals.

They might even get the right ones

Antonio Almendarez may he rest in Peace.

Collyk - everytime you post trying to answer everyones "kicks" you dig a deeper hole. You offer nothing to the people of AC on this board.
Seeking a class-less society - leveling out the haves and have-nots? as ridiculous as the first time you said it. Not punishing perpetrators? (closing the gate after the horse...)OY!
No one here is reponding to you personally just the nonsense that you espouse. Say what yee may I cannot repond to you again.
Lots of great ideas have been posted here -both for AC 'ers to undertake and for the family of Antonio Almendarez - yours, Collyk , ain't some of them.

Yat, isn't that what the kkk was about in the begining?

now danny my brother..I think to hang a scum bag killer after a very fair trial is way to go..kkk never gave any one a trial. they where a bunch of racist bums themselves .we are talking apples to grapes here..justice should be swift and fair but hang em ,is the only way a killer never kills again...if you do the crime ,well you know the rest..

Now Danny...the difference here is that we are discriminating against only the criminals. And these are the BAD guys.

What I was getting at was, at least as I heard it from oldtimers in western Pa., the kkk looked after their own. And, if say an abusive husband got out of line he would get a visit. If that didn't work more drastic measures were employed. If someone was steeling that person was paid a visit. No search warants needed. Quick, easy, and meaningfull.

sounds like a plan - next time I get po'd at my neighbor I can just report that he stole from me - next time hubby doesn't like the way dinner turns out - he can just report I "got out of line" no due process required - pray it never happens to someone you actually care about.

Four People Arrested in Connection w/Murder of Antonio Almendarez:



It was reported in today's meeting that three people have been arrested and charged with the murder of Antonio Almendarez and conspiracy to commit robbery. They are 17 year old Bernard Williams, 23 year old Luis Lalan, and 17 year old Austin Mungia. The Chamber would like to thank the police for the outstanding investigation that has lead to these arrests. For further information and details, please visit http://www.belizeweb.com/. A fourth person was arrested today.